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12 Ways to Get All the Mental Health Benefits of Exercise Without Ever Joining a Gym

If the thought of ellipticals and barbells stresses you out, here are some surprising alternatives. ByAnna Borges

Let’s face it: The gym isn’t everyone’s cup of tea (or protein shake), whether you can’t afford the membership or just hate to go. Luckily for us gym naysayers, there are plenty of other ways to tap into the incredible mental benefits of movement. 

What are those benefits? As you’ve probably heard, exercise triggers the release of endorphins, those feel-good chemicals in your brain that can boost your mood. Regular physical activity has also been linked to sharper focus and better emotional regulation—skills that can make the days a little easier, especially when you’re already going through it.   

All that said, the real key to reaping those rewards is finding a movement practice you’ll actually do. And, for most humans, that means something you’ll actually like. To give you some ideas, we asked people to share a physical activity they fell in love with. If you’re ready to skip the gym but still cultivate some mental wellness, here are a few ways to get your body moving or your blood pumping.

1. Whip out the jump rope. 

“I’m an internal medicine resident full time, and some days I come home from the hospital unable to move from the mental exhaustion. The jump rope lets me work out whenever, wherever—including in my living room. I haven’t gotten fancy like any of the Instagram jump ropers, but I hope to someday. It helps to connect with things that let me feel less routined and more like a kid again.” —Hania Mumta, 30

2. Shake it on the dance floor.

“Being regularly active is a struggle for me. I work from home and don’t have a gym membership. Haven’t taken a dance class in years. But my favorite way to get the exercise my body and mind desperately crave is dancing! At home, out at the one gay bar in my town, and at popup dance parties.” —Ames B., 31

3. Channel your inner Legolas.  

“I didn’t expect to ever have a chance to get into archery, even though it absolutely fits the general nerd vibe I give off. But after gathering a few of my fellow nerd friends to give it a shot, I became hooked. There’s something about the idea of just trying to be better than you were the last time you were at the range that appeals to me. It’s definitely worth the soreness in my lats and the tingle in my fingers from drawing back the bowstring. Getting to feel like an extra in a Lord of the Rings movie doesn’t hurt either.” —Hayes Brown, 36

4. Or pick up another ancient tool. 

“I’ve been taking classes on 17th-century rapier and 15th-century longsword for almost 10 years. It’s been an amazing experience, not only as exercise but in finding community and growing as a person. I thought this was going to be just a fun little class I took for a few weeks, and instead, it’s been nearly a decade of my life. Not every group out there is going to be as open-minded, accepting, and queer-friendly as the group I’m a part of, but I feel blessed to have found the one I did.” —Daniel Laloggia, 43

5. Go for a classic run.  

“My favorite exercise is running. It strengthens my body, clears my mind, and helps me regain my focus. I love that running is a therapeutic outlet for me and that I can go at my own pace. I don’t pressure myself to run fast; instead, I just like to get out there and move.” —Alyshia Hull, 26

6. Or take a mindful walk.  

“I walk around my neighborhood and the lake at night and look at all the evening animals in Florida—bats waking up, birds that are nesting down, frogs calling to each other, the scream of the cicada. It doesn’t feel like I’m exercising or anything; it’s more like an immersive experience in nature that keeps my brain occupied and gets me excited.” —Kristen Arnett, 43

7. Hop on a stair stepper at home.

“I actually like traditional gym workouts (love me an elliptical!), but my senior dog has developed severe separation anxiety, and I’m no longer able to leave him alone in my apartment when I go to the gym. I still wanted to be somewhat active, so I was influenced by TikTok to try one of those mini stepper machines, and I surprisingly loved it! I use it nearly every day, either throughout the day when I work from home or after I get home from the office as I watch an episode of whatever show I’m bingeing. Since it’s just out in my living room, there’s no mental barrier of having to get dressed and go to a second location to work out.” —Amy Fowler, 30

8. Step into a virtual reality. 

“I found gamifying fitness really helped me move more in a variety of different ways. The headset I use tracks how many calories I burn and how long I play, plus gives me weekly challenges. Even the games that aren’t marketed as fitness games often get me up and moving around more than a seated flat-screen game would. It’s great to just escape into a game, and I’m getting both gaming and the gym in one budget.” —Russ R., 33

“Beat Saber in VR. Playing that on hard mode for 45 minutes is actually a good little workout, and it doesn’t at all feel like one because it’s so fun!” —Katie M., 33

9. Switch up your commute. 

“Commuting to places by bike is great. I can’t get myself to go on a ride just for the fun of it, but if I have to get there some way and the weather is good, biking gets my heart rate up and the happy brain juices flowing.” —Ben Wills, 32

10. Scale the nearest wall.

“I love indoor climbing—especially bouldering. It’s playful, social, and engaging. I get to run around and chat with lots of folks at my climbing wall. There’s a lot of time spent hanging around and solving problems with friends and strangers. And while there are fun and interesting challenges whatever your level or mood, it doesn’t have to be competitive. It’s really fun!” —Alice Coleman, 29

11. Paddle it out.

“I love kayaking INCREDIBLY casually. Almost every kayak I’ve ever been in was rented to me by a group of confused high school students and one token adult who rounded them all up to run a free kayaking program. But once I’m on the water, baby, not a single concern crosses my mind. I can be rowing in a tiny bay, picking up garbage with my paddle while I sing ‘trash fishing’ quietly to myself. I can row for a good hour in uneven circles. It clears my head. No phones. No gym fluorescent lights. Just me, several other amateur kayakers, and probably a sunburn. And then I get ice cream.” —Anne J., 31

“I learned to row crew at 50 years of age. I now exercise outdoors on the water multiple times a week around sunrise with club members who have become great friends. Rowing in a crew means I have to turn up. Exercising early means I start the day with energy and gratitude. It’s vigorous exercise; I’ve never been fitter. I found my ‘thing.’” —Helen B., 56

12. Stretch wherever works for you. 

“Sometimes I stretch on the couch that I’m lying on. I have one of those IKEA L-couches with an extendable section that basically makes it into a bed. I have chronic pain in all of my major joints, but my knees are especially rough. When my pain is bad, I lay there and do what I describe to my friends as ‘weird stretches in the air.’ I lie on my back on the couch, put my legs above me so I’m at a 90-degree angle, and then start bending my knees so I look like a Tetris piece. It’s weird, but it helps a lot. Sometimes, my knees make weird grinding sounds. Sometimes, they don’t.” —E. Scherzinger, 30

Quotes have been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

The post 12 Ways to Get All the Mental Health Benefits of Exercise Without Ever Joining a Gym appeared first on Wondermind.

WM x ASICS Link Copied 04.22.24 Powered By

15 Surprising Ways to Get Out of a Funk

You got this. ByAmy Marturana Winderl

Everybody has those days: When you just feel downright blah and can’t figure out how to snap out of it. You’re not depressed or dealing with any other specific mental health concern; you’re just in an absolute funk. If anyone needs you, they can find you lying around and sulking for the foreseeable future.

Sometimes, if you really sit and reflect, you can pinpoint the culprits contributing to your down-in-the-dumps mood. Burnout, feeling stuck in a dead-end job, relationship woes, being far from loved ones, and carrying a crushing weight of responsibilities on your shoulders are all biggies, says clinical psychologist Marilisa Morea, PsyD, owner and director of Monarch Therapy and Wellness Center in Thornhill, Ontario. Other times, it may seem like you’ve got no reason to feel like garbage—yet, you just do. 

This emotional state is a very normal reaction to the human experience, says therapist Siobhan D. Flowers, PhD, LPC-S, an adjunct professor at New York University. “A funk can be difficult to snap out of because it’s something that usually feels uncomfortable for most people, so they would rather just avoid or distract themselves from the feeling altogether, which actually prolongs getting out of it.” 

So, what can you do to take back control and shoo away those rain clouds above your head? Dr. Flowers suggests first taking a cue from nature and reminding yourself that this, too, shall pass. “We have different seasons for a reason—nothing blooms year round, and that includes ourselves. This can serve as a simple reminder to yourself that your season of being in a funk is temporary and will change to something more favorable in due time.”

Then, try one of these creative suggestions from experts and real people who found ways to pull themselves out of a funk.  

1. Start by taking care of just your basic needs.

“Check in on the basics first when you are feeling low or meh. A few things to ask yourself: Have you been getting enough sleep? Are you paying attention to your feelings? Are you nourishing yourself with healthy, energizing foods and are you moving your body? If we haven’t been paying attention to our physical and mental health, we can start to feel the funk.” —Babita Spinelli, LP, licensed psychotherapist and psychoanalyst

2. Do literally anything else.

“My natural tendency when I’m down is to go inward or to impulsively do feel-good things, like eat, drink, or shop. What I do now is embrace the suck of whatever the situation may be and force myself to pause. Then I just make a change. I might go for a walk or a run, or take an unscheduled break and meet up with a friend for something fun and creative. Or I’ll listen to a short mediation through the Peloton app or do a short ride. If I am at the coworking space, I’ll chat with someone. It’s all about a change of pace or a change of scenery. Even better if sunlight is an option. ” —Ruth F., 57

3. Just move.

“Movement for me encourages aligning my mind and body in the present moment. I’ve practiced (and ignored) this for so many years and the majority of the time, when I’m feeling stuck, frustrated, tired, or ‘meh’ and I move (especially outdoors) I feel more in tune with myself, light but more grounded, less reactive, and a sense of connection overall.” —July Z., 43

4. Reflect on the good.

“I keep a gratitude journal at work that I write in occasionally. When I’m not feeling great, I write down three things I’m grateful for and it really does help to perk me up and put me in a more positive headspace.” —Jillian G., 34

5. Have an anti-funk playlist.

“I have a couple of playlists of songs that put me in a good mood, so when I’m feeling down, I play one of those. The first is more pump-up fancy (think: Bastille, Katy Perry), and the second is more like ‘I wanna rock like a baby and belt out the songs’ (think: Hozier, Vance Joy).” —Julie M., 33

6. Go on a solo coffee date.

“My college friends and I always said that going out for a cup of coffee was about the experience, not so much the coffee. That still rings true for me today. I often grab a coffee after I drop my son at school, before I begin the work day, or if we’re home I go out to grab a cup before sitting back down to focus. I also used to do this midday if I needed a break before coming back to my desk. It gets me up and out, and it’s a little ‘me’ time—something I’m doing just for myself—amidst the chaos of my day that’s often focused around everyone else. I find it as an opportunity to take a break and then get back to work, or take a break and reflect on whatever I might be dealing with that day.” —Kerry H., 32

7. Shift your focus to others.

“I recommend not making your funk about you. This can be done by shifting your focus outward towards volunteering, donating something to those in need, or otherwise reflecting on how you can feel a feeling—without being the feeling. Taking an active approach to ‘externalize’ your feelings (without avoiding them) makes it much less likely that you will remain in the downward momentum of a funk for very long.” —Dr. Flowers

8. Head straight to the massage table. Do not pass go.

“When I’m feeling blah, I take myself for a massage at a no-frills location. I think it’s $50 for an hour massage that literally melts my stress away (for one hour at least).” —Zoe B., 33

9. Host a low-effort gathering.

“Inviting friends over for something fun and different always helps shake me out of a funk. That might mean having people over for lunch and getting out the dishes and glassware I never use, throwing a dessert-only party, or hosting a pizza night where each person or couple brings their favorite pizza and everyone gets to take home a takeout container with leftovers. I like finding ways to have low-effort get-togethers when everyone just needs to get out!” —Jayne N., 65

10. Reorganize or redecorate.

“Sometimes you just need to mix things up. Give your space a new paint job, declutter, organize, and put out things that offer calm and inspiration. Put away or get rid of things that keep you stuck in the past or are taking up unnecessary space. Releasing old things that might be holding you back lets you allow for new and more positive things to enter your space.” —Dr. Morea

11. Cry it out.

“I listened to a podcast a few months ago about how important it is to allow yourself to feel your feelingsq, and I’ve had a few emotionally charged moments recently. I decided during the last few to just let myself feel the thing all the way through to crying, or whatever physical thing I needed. Usually it’s high-energy cardio or other physical exertion, but the last time I just opened up to feeling the sadness and the tears came. I always feel better after crying and allowing myself to fully process an emotion.” —Lauren A., 36

12. Get outside, preferably near a body of water.

“Being outdoors and breathing fresh air increases serotonin and can help get us out of a funk. It also provides perspective that there is something bigger and more powerful. Being in nature also has a calming effect on the mind and body. Walking on the beach, swimming in a body of water, or even just watching the waves is also very therapeutic and can shift our mood. I love to take long walks by the ocean while listening to my favorite songs if I find myself in a bit of a funk.” —Spinelli

13. Sauna, hydrate, repeat.

“Often when I’m stressed or feeling overwhelmed I’ll spend the Sunday at my favorite day spa where I’ll start off with the lower temperature saunas and work my way up—doing intervals of 10 to 15 minutes in the sauna and then 30 minutes of relaxing, reading a book, and hydrating. I’ll cycle through five to six times throughout the day. The combination of sweating and relaxing makes me just feel so good and refreshed. Also, I always sleep like a baby that night.” —Elie O., 33

14. Do a tech detox.

“For me to truly take a break, I have to turn everything off. As a small business owner I’m literally always on, and it can be draining to maintain. If I’m relaxing after dinner and watching a movie, I’m checking my emails (I’m sure others are guilty of this). So whenever I feel stressed or anxious, I intentionally block time off in my calendar and my mind as a time to be offline. I basically will just use my phone for the alarm and then try to leave it in another room for the day or the weekend. If I can’t do a full day, I’ll do a morning or evening, and it gives me the opportunity that I need to reset. It always feels so great and makes me want to trade it all in for a beeper or snail mail.” —Meagan C., 33

15. Try something that scares you a little. 

“Doing something wildly out of my comfort zone always helps me snap out of a funk. Some past examples include: taking a pilates reformer class that almost broke me, painting a piece of furniture with zero DIY experience, booking a solo trip (and going zip-lining through the jungle on said trip). Whatever it is, even if I end up hating it or being bad at it, I still get a sense of satisfaction out of trying something that I normally would shy away from. It’s a great way to remind yourself that you can do hard things.” —Casey G., 35 

The post 15 Surprising Ways to Get Out of a Funk appeared first on Wondermind.

Q&A Link Copied 10.10.23

Peloton’s Alex Toussaint Didn’t Realize He Was at Rock Bottom

Plus, the last time he cried. BySam Brodsky

I don’t want to generalize (OK, maybe I do), but anyone—literally anyone—who takes Alex Toussaint’s Peloton classes knows that mental health is his jam. He’s there to help you do a great workout on the bike, sure. But the vibe is more about inspiring you to push through difficult moments and feel all of your feels. 

Toussaint’s journey to becoming one of Peloton’s biggest mental health champions in 2016 wasn’t linear. There were grueling years in military school, a strained relationship with his dad, and moments of depression. “But all of that failure, that pain, that darkness, is useful if we make it so. It can become our superpower. I want to tell you the story of how I made it become mine,” Toussaint writes in his new book, Activate Your Greatness. 

Here, Toussaint talks more about overcoming rough times, embracing his emotions, and changing his mental health for the better through fitness. “I never realized how much joy, how much light, I was going to receive from moving pedal strokes that went absolutely nowhere,” he tells Wondermind. “But mentally and emotionally and spiritually, my mind went  somewhere.”

[Sign up here to never miss these candid conversations delivered straight to your inbox.]

WM: How are you doing lately?

Alex Toussaint: I’m amazing right now. I took time this weekend to let my body and my mind align. A lot of positive things in life are happening right now travel-wise, career-wise, and personally, so I’m just taking time to make sure I’m still present with myself. So as of today, I’m aligned and I feel great. Thank you for asking.

WM: What is one aspect of your mental health that’s still a work in progress? 

AT: I’m still learning how to disconnect to reconnect. I truly love the grind and love what I do for work, which is not really work—it’s life for me. So I get caught in the hustle from time to time, where I need to just make sure I disconnect myself from it. [I need to make sure] I put myself on the sidelines and just mentally recover and physically recover before life puts me on the sidelines. So just taking the proper recovery is something I’m still working on and will always continue to work on.

Because my life is so camera-facing and social media-oriented and based in human interaction, simply just being at my house by myself [is how I disconnect]. If I can’t get away to the nearest beach, I try to create an environment where I feel safe, where I disconnect unapologetically and feel present with myself. So I sit at home and isolate, in a healthy way, in my place of comfort, my place of love, and make sure that my cup isn’t just full, that it’s overflowing. What I do on a daily basis [means I have] to overflow into other people’s lives. 

[At home, I do] anything from cuddling with my dogs to watching Law & Order  by myself. I’m also very big on sitting in silence. I love sitting in my backyard and just taking the opportunity to be connected with Mother Nature, especially walking in the grass. My house is surrounded by trees, so I have the ability to walk into the backyard and completely disconnect from technology, social media, the teaching of classes, and interacting with people and be present with myself.

WM: You talk about depression in your book. Do you remember the first time you felt depressed? 

AT: I didn’t realize I was living in depression until I got to the fitness industry. I felt that I was in a dark space, but I didn’t understand what depression was. I didn’t have any information or the resources to even identify what depression could feel like nor seem like. I felt like I saw other people go through way worse levels of depression. So, for me, I wasn’t able to identify it, but, over time, when I was able to start moving my body, moving my mind, when I got into the fitness industry, it started to help me understand mentally that I was in such a dark space. 

It took me until 21 years old to realize I was going through depression, and I think there’s a lot of people out there who feel that same way and may not even realize it and think, This is how life is. … I never told myself I was depressed. I was sad and didn’t know it was full-on depression.

I’ve been in therapy since I was 4 or 5 due to family trauma. But I never understood that I was depressed. Nobody ever told me I was depressed. I never knew I was living at rock bottom until I started making my climb back up. Then, I was able to identify where I never wanted to go back to.

WM: Did anything help you deal with those feelings even if you didn’t know that’s what was going on?

AT: Fitness. That’s why I preach how I preach, and that’s why I’m so happy to do what I do for the last 11 years of my life. Moving pedal strokes has allowed me to move my mind, move my body, move my spirit. They say you attract what you are. Ever since I started in fitness and moving my body, I started to become way more of a light in my own personal life, which allowed me to track the light for others and be a light for others. So that was definitely that turning point, without question.

I try to remind everybody in my classes that I don’t teach for their body, I teach for their mind. If I can train this, the body will follow. [If you’re] confident up here and think different up here, you’ll open up new opportunities for yourself and find a new version of yourself along that journey. … That’s what we’re trying to preach every single day. 

WM: Are you still in therapy?

AT: I’m still in it because, now, it allows me to process my thoughts and also just be able to vent. Thankfully, I have a job that does feel like therapy. I’m able to get on a bike, truly be myself, and express myself whether I’m in a good mood or bad mood. My therapist allows me to connect the dots and the missing pieces when I’m not able to.

I’ve been in therapy on and off for 25 years of my life, and as my circumstances changed, so did my therapists. I moved. I went through different versions of who I was as a person. I would say find somebody that you’re comfortable with but also makes you think different. Don’t get too comfortable. 

WM: You sometimes get emotional during the classes you teach. If you’re comfortable answering, when was the last time you cried?

AT: Literally two days ago [laughs]. Two days ago in a crowd full of Peloton people at an event. My mother surprised me out of nowhere. My coworker, who was leading the panel, asked me when the last time I saw my mom was, and, in that moment, I was like, “I forgot to call my mom back this week, and I’ll probably see her in a couple of weeks,” and then she surprised me at my event. So I bawled in front of 110 people. … Tears of joy, period.

WM:  You say in the book that vulnerability is a taboo subject, especially for Black men. What has being vulnerable taught you about yourself?

AT: Vulnerability is ultimately my strength. I wish it was a lot more acceptable in our communities. So what I’m trying to teach within my classes at Peloton, being the first Black instructor and being able to have this platform, is to let other people who look like me know that your vulnerability is your strength, and once you tap into that, you find a new version of yourself and you become a lot more confident and sure of who you are. 

You become way more stable from a mental and emotional standpoint once you tap into understanding vulnerability is not a weakness. But our culture and our community has been taught not to cry, to toughen up. I’ve learned who I am through vulnerability, through movement, so I’m trying to help other people find themselves and the best version of themselves through that process.

WM: Do you think your family has gotten more vulnerable since you have? 

AT: They had no choice [laughs]. I’m the baby of the family, so if the baby is vulnerable and has that ability, it kind of shocks everybody, and I have to break through that core. It’s so beautiful to see everybody go through their own process of vulnerability because everybody becomes stronger at the end of the day.

WM: A big theme in the book is your strained relationship with your dad. Have you seen that vulnerability in him? 

AT: I think he’s gone through his own process of healing, and I’ve gone through my own, and I keep telling myself that it’s such a beautiful thing of bridging this gap of love, peace, and grace. When you find internal peace for yourself, it allows you to find peace for others … allows you to build that bridge. My dad’s going through his own evolution, and I’m going through mine. We’ve kind of met each other halfway along this journey, and now we have a clear runway of love without any level of resistance because of that vulnerability. 

Hats off to him. I know it’s way harder for him to go through that process than it is for me because that older generation hasn’t had those resources and tools to break through that shell. … Now I’m able to share my story with the world in an organic way due to the fact that me and my dad have this healthy relationship. It’s a beautiful thing.

WM: Gratitude is another subject that comes up a lot in your writing. What advice do you have for people who aren’t sure how to practice gratitude?

AT: The ability to wake up and be blessed with another 24 hours—that simple blessing is something you can count before you even touch your feet to the ground. If you count certain things in your life that you’re grateful for before the day even gets started, you start to identify … the things you do have versus the things you don’t have. 

Once you get into that flow, you start to identify throughout the day things that make you feel good, things that you accomplish, things that provide you a certain level of, Oh, I am worthy. I am great.

WM: What are you most grateful for today?

AT: I’m grateful for the fact that my mother flew up and surprised me over the weekend and gave me love. I knew I needed it, but I didn’t know how  much I needed it. It helped me just find a level of internal happiness.

WM: You help tons of people with your platform on Peloton and social media. What’s the best part about it? 

AT: The best part is doing it as myself. Waking up and just getting to be me is the best feeling ever. There’s no flip of a switch. There’s no costume. This is me. I’m thankful I get to be myself every single day. 

Second, I would say, as I continue to evolve and go through my own journey and my own trials and tribulations and my own evolution, I feel like I’m going through this process with a community of people that are moving with me, not standing with me. So when I look to my left and I look to my right, I’m able to see my colleagues who I’m inspired by—Tunde Oyeneyin, Ally Love, Jess Sims, Robin Arzón, Cody Rigsby—but then I’m also able to see their communities as well. And being able to share information, love, light, and experiences throughout that process is probably one of the best things ever because I don’t ever feel alone. 

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

The post Peloton’s Alex Toussaint Didn’t Realize He Was at Rock Bottom appeared first on Wondermind.

Essay Link Copied 06.02.23

I Hate How Much the ‘Silly Little Mental Health Walk’ Actually Works

Sometimes the internet is right. ByColleen Stinchcombe

If you’re on the mental health side of TikTok, you’ve probably seen people stomping with grumpy faces through all kinds of weather, usually backed with peppy, retro video game-style music in the background. (Exhibit A.) “Going for a stupid walk for my stupid mental health,” text reads over the video. While social media isn’t always known for doling out great wellness advice, I’m here to tell you that the silly little mental health walk actually works. At least for me. 

I’m no stranger to exercising for mental health benefits. I tend to discover new physical hobbies and dive into them with gusto, spending several months hiking, running, indoor climbing, or weight lifting like it’s my job. Hiking helped me process my mother’s death—so much so that I spent three months backpacking 1,000 miles one summer. Biking for hours at a time got me through the first pandemic summer. Other activities have helped to manage day-to-day stress, waves of anxiety, and big life transitions, like moving to a new state.

But I always kind of rolled my eyes at walking. Walking was something you did to get from point A to point B. It was something to do when my knees couldn’t keep up with jogging anymore. I felt like short walks wouldn’t quite scratch the itch I was looking for. I wanted that emptied-out feeling after a hard workout, where I didn’t have the energy to stress about minor details.

Here’s what happened when I tried the silly little mental health walk. 

Last December, I found myself in a training lull. My body just wasn’t interested in pushing itself, but I felt aimless without a physical goal to work toward. That’s when I kept seeing these TikTok videos on my feed. (The algorithm!) I thought, What the heck—until we figure out what to do next, let’s go on a silly little mental health walk. 

Much to my own surprise, my grumbling, broody brain took a breather. It was nice to be outside. Despite not hurrying along, my heart rate increased. My legs liked moving. And while the walks didn’t give me that cleansed feeling I get with a harder effort, I was still in a much better mood than when I’d walked out the door.

I live in the Seattle area, so going on a walk often means rain. Much of the year, it’s chilly and dark. I typically have time later in the day, after work when I’m feeling antsy, cooped up, and the sun is rapidly setting. Not the most welcoming invitation for a walk. Even with the quick, early benefits I experienced, I often think, No, I don’t have time. I need to go run this errand instead. Or, It’s raining. I don’t want to go out there. 

But I’ve never regretted a day that I’ve gone—even when I’ve gambled without a rain jacket and come back drenched. Even when I got distracted looking at a sign, stepped awkwardly on a curb, and fell to my hands and knees so badly that my leg was scratched and bruised for weeks. I’ve even come up with tricks to get myself going: On days I’m really fighting a walk—usually a good sign I need one—I head out in the same sweatpants I’ve been wearing at my desk. No special outfit required, the way it can be for runs or gym days.

I know I’m a sample of one in this unscientific study, but there’s actually really good evidence that walking can help with your mental health. According to a systematic review and meta-analysis published in JAMA Psychiatry, people who walked for 75 minutes a week (half the amount of weekly exercise recommended for other health benefits) were 18% less likely to experience depression than people who weren’t active. When people got the full 150 minutes of recommended exercise through brisk walking, their risk of depression was 25% lower than people who didn’t. In one Chinese study, walking consistently improved people’s emotional health regardless of how long their walks were or whether they walked through a polluted environment. The more often they walked, the better they felt. 

Why do mental health walks work? 

“Movement and physical activity are excellent for managing anxiety, breaking out of a depressive moment or phase, or feeling activated with tough feelings like overwhelm or anger,” says Jessica Stern, PhD, clinical psychologist at NYU Langone Health. “It allows us to work off any energy that is overwhelming or holds us back. Or, in the case of depression, it can help us get out of our space or our routine when we may otherwise feel unmotivated to do much. It allows us to shift our perspective and experience the world around us and can give us an opportunity to prioritize ourselves.”

That shift in perspective and experience is one of the benefits I’ve noticed most. I start out grumpy, but then I wave at a fellow walker or notice something happening in my neighborhood—a cable being replaced, an arborist high in a tree trimming limbs, the cherry blossoms blooming—and my irritation is replaced with curiosity. 

Still, as nice as walks are, they’re not a magical cure-all. Some days I still manage to ruminate, no matter how many pretty flowers I pass. And despite its ability to reduce the risk of depression, Dr. Stern says it’s not a substitute for treating mental health conditions.

“Walking alone will not ‘fix’ mental health struggles, so for individuals who are struggling, mental health treatment may be crucial or beneficial,” she explains. But don’t write it off just because it can’t do everything. “Walking can be an excellent add-on and, in some cases, may be sufficient for someone who has made progress with treatment or may have a lower level of struggling,” she says.

OK, but if walking is good for your brain, running and other physically taxing sports must be better, right? Not necessarily. “For other exercises, like running or hiking, we are typically focused on the activity, whereas in walking, it encourages us to either focus on the world around us or to think and process internal experiences,” Dr. Stern says. “It is also an activity that can be much more sustainable than more rigorous types of movement.” While not everyone can exercise regularly, most people can manage to get out for a little fresh air every once in a while. That lower barrier to entry can be huge when you’re going through something—physically or mentally. But the habit itself is helpful for everyone, even seasoned athletes, says Dr. Stern. 

Of course, there’s a big caveat here: Every one of us is different, just as our environments are. Taking a stroll around your city might not be a relaxing, restorative, or safe practice. And the advice to “just go for a walk” can be particularly frustrating for some people, like those dealing with chronic pain, trauma, physical limitations, and so on. So keep in mind that your mileage may vary and that this mental health advice, like all others, isn’t one-size-fits-all. 

So yes, I still like hard, grueling exercise, and I’m excited to get back to trail running and long days in the mountains. But I’ve got to hand it to TikTok: They were right about those silly little mental health walks. On my toughest days, walking out my front door—even for 15 minutes—puts me in a much better headspace. Even if I’m grumbling about how stupid it is as I lock the door.

The post I Hate How Much the ‘Silly Little Mental Health Walk’ Actually Works appeared first on Wondermind.

Q&A Link Copied 05.26.23

How EMDR Helped Jameela Jamil Overcome an Eating Disorder (and Her Fear of the Dark)

The actor and advocate shares what mental health tools are in her self-care kit. ByShannon Barbour

When you think of Jameela Jamil, your mind probably goes to her self-centered yet lovely character on The Good Place, her fierce and often divisive takedowns of celebrities who hawk appetite suppressants disguised as tea and lollipops, and her ever-present advocacy work. And this month, the actor and podcast host is using her knack for bringing people together to lead a new mindful movement initiative with her I Weigh mental health platform. 

“I think I’ve made a big ol’ stink about diet culture, and we all know now how I feel about the diet drinks and certain people abusing the weight loss injections who don’t need them. So now I’m moving on to exercise culture to just give that back to people,” she tells Wondermind. 

Through the Move for Your Mind movement, Jamil is on a mission to encourage people to tap into physical exercise for the sake of mental health benefits. Unlike so many exercise initiatives you see online, this one isn’t about getting your body to look a certain way. Plus, Move for Your Mind is meant for everyone to participate—not just the typical white, able-bodied, slim, super toned, or muscle-y people that are frequently catered to by the wellness industry. Her mission will take shape in the form of both in-person events and online offerings on social media (for anyone who is a homebody or struggles to get out of the house). “Exercise can be joyous and fun, and you can look hugely uncool doing it and still have it be effective, as I have learned myself,” she says. 

Here, Jamil talks about therapy, anxiety, and why she prioritizes movement even though she despises sweating. 

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WM: How are you doing lately? 

Jameela Jamil: I’m alright, actually. I feel good. I feel a bit stressed about the world, but I think that’s kind of strengthened my resolve to really look after myself and get ready for the fight ahead. 

WM: What current events are on your mind? 

JJ: The increasing restrictions on women’s reproductive health is probably the thing that stresses me out the most. It seems to be one of the many imminent dangers. Obviously [there’s concern] with things like gun violence or what’s happening to the unhoused in this country, and there’s so many things that are bothering me as well as in my own home country. But I think in my head at least, and probably because of my own emotional attachment to reproductive freedom, the continued assault on our right to control our own bodies is what feels like the house is burning down right now. It’s affecting people right now as we speak. 

WM: It can be easy to feel powerless in those moments. Do you ever feel like that? What helps you maintain your mental health during these trying times? 

JJ: One of the ways in which I protect my mental health is remembering that this is not just my journey. Sometimes because we’re from such an individualist society, we take all the pressure onto ourselves, and we just think, What am I going to do about this? You have to find the people who inspire you, who galvanize you, and who take a bit of that pressure off so that you remember this is not just a one-human fight—there’s millions of us in this, and we will win again.

I never used to be intentional about making space for myself, but I got so sick, both mentally and physically, from constantly burning the candle at both ends and constantly taking in this stressful information that my literal cortisol levels couldn’t handle it anymore. I used to feel guilty for taking a break from thinking about these things or learning about these things or fighting towards these things, but I realized I just ran on empty and eventually burned out so much I couldn’t do anything for anyone. So it’s not just care for you, it’s also care for your community to engage in restoration. 

WM: This month you’re working on a new mindful movement initiative with your I Weigh platform. What inspired you to lead this?  

JJ: I had an eating disorder for 20 years, and I have very strong feelings about diet culture because it was a massive part of what poisoned my brain for such a long time and took away two decades of my life. I think exercise culture has really crept into diet culture, and they have become synonymous with one another.

We have been programmed for about four decades now to look at exercise as something you do for weight loss, as something you do to punish yourself for having eaten or to give yourself permission to be able to eat more food. We look at it as this obligation to make our body look a certain way. And we have these increasingly ridiculous body goals that take months or years or a lifetime to achieve these sort of Marvel bodies or Instagram bodies that everyone wants to attain. And we are human beings, and we are prone to wanting instant gratification. 

What I’m trying to do is to remind people that you might not get abs by the end of this [movement] session, but you will feel immediately better than you did before. You will release happy chemicals into your brain—endorphins and dopamine—and you will feel a literal sense of control in your life, which in these times, is so vital to feel a sense of autonomy. You will sleep better that night. You will feel more energy. You will feel more vitality.

So many people have been kept out of exercise via advertising or via gym culture. We don’t see people with disabilities very often. We don’t see fat people very often. And when we do, there’s global uproar. We shame bigger people about not exercising, and yet when we see images of them doing so or clothing that’s big enough to fit their bodies, we freak out, which is such confusing messaging. Pregnant people, elderly people, all these people who need to move every day for their mental health aren’t being included in a culture because of capitalism. We need to get rid of the term exclusive. We need to democratize exercise. We need to take exercise back because it’s for everyone, and it is vital to our emotional well-being. 

WM: How did more movement impact your personal mental health journey?

JJ: There’s nothing I passionately despise more than thinking about the exercise that I’m going to do. I hate putting on trainers. I hate every single moment of it. And it’s very normal if you do too, but I would advise you to try to push past that and carry on with it. Because at the beginning of a walk, often I feel low in mood, low in energy, and very overwhelmed. All the thoughts of the internet are in my brain from whatever I’ve just seen, and I can’t process them properly and just feel kind of stuck and anxious. And by the end of a 15- or 20-minute walk, I think there’s something about being in motion that changes the way that you think and the way you are able to troubleshoot. It starts to organize my thoughts while I’m moving. The feeling of momentum kind of carries through to me psychologically. 

And because of the chemical interaction in my brain, I feel so much less anxious. I feel literally less depressed. … I feel happier and better, and it feels like a free concurrence where if there was any pill that could make me feel better that fast, I would take it. 

WM: Including everybody, no matter their mobility or fitness level, is crucial. How will your initiative ensure everyone is included and able to participate? 

JJ: Oh yeah, big time. I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, which is a collagen disorder, and it means that I dislocate my joints sometimes. So there are many times when I can’t get up and down the stairs or get out of my house. Even using little weights in the bathtub can help me and shift my feeling of mobility. There are little micro-movements that you can do [because] when you are unable to move your full body, it does require extra energy.

We’re trying to find trainers all over the world who give exercise lessons to people who are pregnant or people who live in bigger bodies or people who have disabilities and different types of disabilities. I’m not pretending to be the expert here or saying I’ve invented the concept of exercising for your mental health. But I’m very good at bringing people together, whether it’s because they like what I’m doing or if they’re all annoyed at me. I am somehow a very connective human being. They’re paying attention. So even when people hate me, they hate me together. That’s a skill. 

WM: What aspect of your mental health would you describe as a work in progress?

JJ: I don’t really struggle with depression very much anymore, [though] I get very sad when I’m unwell because it hurts a lot, and it’s very hard to stay motivated about anything when you’re in pain. … I really struggle with anxiety. I think if you are working in social justice all the time, it’s really hard not to feel that. It’s really hard not to internalize that and just to constantly feel like the world is on fire and there’s so much to do. I’m working on pacing my anxiety and working on taking those breaks and realizing that this is a marathon, this is not a sprint, and these two things take a long time. And making sure I don’t fall into hopelessness because that makes my anxiety so much worse. 

That’s why things like exercise, things that force my anxiety out by dancing or whatever are a vital practice. ‘Cause it’s really hard as an anxious person to think your way out of anxiety. You kind of have to move your way through it. Whether that’s medication or exercise or spending time with friends or animals, that’s something that I’m still making a conscious effort to do because you can’t override it by yourself.

I found eye movement desensitization reprocessing (EMDR) therapy very helpful. It kind of reorganizes your brain as to the thoughts that you need for safety and the thoughts that are mundane and that you don’t need to constantly hyper-focus on.

Let’s take the eating disorder thing. I had a very, very weird and bad attitude towards food, where food represented anything other than just fuel. To me, food was parents. Food was love. Food was rebellion. Food was self-hatred. Food was congratulations. It was anything but nutrition. It was all these symbolic things to me. And I went to EMDR for that, to detach my feelings around food so that when I’m eating a hamburger, it’s not because I did well at school or won an award or because I’m punishing myself for daring to feel good and I’m trying to make myself feel bad and feel self-hatred. It’s just a fucking burger. It’s been unbelievable to reclaim my attitude towards the way that I nourish myself. 

It’s the same thing with how I used to be afraid of the dark. I did EMDR and found it was linked to childhood anxiety that I had because of terrible things I’d witnessed as a kid. Via doing EMDR therapy, I was able to reclaim my feeling of like, No, I am safe now. I’m not still a child and I’m not still in that position and I’m able to sleep in the dark now. These things sound silly and maybe childish to some people, but they’re real, and a lot of people face them. 

WM: What stigma or misconception about mental health bothers you the most? 

JJ: There’s still a huge stigma around medication. I used to have that stigma around medication. I was 33 the first time I took meds, and the reason I hadn’t until then is because I thought they just treat the symptoms and not the cause. What I hadn’t realized is that sometimes the symptoms are so severe that you are never going to find the cause because they’re clouded in the symptoms. So it’s vital to be able to give yourself the medication that allows you to at least have a fighting chance at clearing the pathway to finding what was the initial cause.

We talk about it more, but people still feel embarrassed or ashamed. Or they’re worried they’re going to gain a bit of weight on the medication or worried that maybe their sex drive will be low. Some of these side effects can be real, but once you do it, and once you take these things and the world looks more colorful to you and you are able to access joy and friendship and stability and you don’t feel hopeless and suicidal—all these different things that can happen that I’ve experienced—you don’t care anymore about if your body changes a bit or if your sex drive changes a bit. 

Medications react differently on different people, and you have to try them to see how they impact you individually. … While I don’t think medication is the be-all and end-all of our self-care—I think we have to practice other things to get better too—it is vital that we stop making people feel like there’s something wrong with them for taking an “easier” route. The world is hard enough. 

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

The post How EMDR Helped Jameela Jamil Overcome an Eating Disorder (and Her Fear of the Dark) appeared first on Wondermind.

Q&A Link Copied 01.25.23

Emma Coburn’s Mental Health Routine Includes Lots of Naps

A woman after our own hearts. ByShannon Barbour

Ah, bedtime. The highlight of some of our days, to be honest. And Olympic runner Emma Coburn is no different, crediting sleep and daily naps (yep! daily!) for keeping her mental health on par with her physical health. Here, the steeplechase champion opens up about her tricks for staying well rested, what she wishes she could tell her younger self about trying to do all the things, and why a little TV for bed isn’t a terrible idea. 

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WM: How are you doing lately?

Emma Coburn: I’m pretty good. I’m happy because I’ve started training again. … I always feel good when I’m in a routine and training hard. 

WM: You recently talked about your sleep habits in a documentary called The Quest for Sleep. Why is sleep such a big priority for you?

EC: We all talk about training and diet and all of that, but a huge piece of my career is sleeping. When I had an opportunity to talk about sleep, I was happy to share that insight and hopefully connect with younger athletes who might not understand the importance of sleep in their athletic success and longevity. [I also wanted] to try and connect the dots for people who might struggle with sleep and also are struggling with some athletic performances and let them know this is how I do it and that this is super important. Sleep is a huge, crucial piece of my puzzle. 

WM: Have you always been on point about getting enough sleep and taking it seriously?

EC: I started buckling down more with sleep once I graduated college and was training to try and make my second Olympic team. At that level, you’re just really trying to find that last little 1%. You’re trying to find that last little advantage to get your body really primed and ready. 

So I started tracking my sleep and became disciplined about my sleep habits around 2015 or 2016 as the Rio Olympics [approached]. I ended up winning a medal in those Olympics and learned a lot about my patterns and the habits I need to create in my life to lead to great sleep, which then leads to [overall] health. 

WM: Have you noticed that getting better sleep impacts your mental health?

EC: I really notice it affecting my mental health when I don’t sleep well because I created years and years of good habits around sleep. My nightly routine generally gives me good sleep, so I generally wake up in a good mood, ready to train, and feeling positive. When I get bad sleep, I really recognize the impact on my mental health and my outlook on everything. Everything is just that much harder. Everything is skewed in a glass-half-empty type of light. Getting quality sleep in my daily life does make me a much happier, more positive, more optimistic person. When I get a bad night, I’m pretty grumpy.

WM: What does your nightly routine look like?

EC: I start winding everything down by 8:30 p.m. I’m cleaning up my kitchen, doing all my chores, and taking my dog out. By 9 p.m., I’m in bed. Then I typically will watch a movie or show. I know people say blue light is bad for you before sleep, but for me, it doesn’t seem to upset my sleep patterns. 

Then my room has to be really cold, dark, and quiet. When I’m traveling and on the road, that’s when my sleep gets sacrificed because you can’t control that environment very much. 

WM: You also take daily naps between your training sessions. Do you have any tricks for not oversleeping and making sure you actually wake up feeling energized?

EC: Naps can be tricky because of that. One thing I really like is listening to an audiobook if I’m hyped but know I need to wind down and get relaxed for a nap. I’ll listen to an audiobook for 10 or 15 minutes or read a book. Then I’ll set my alarm for a maximum of 90 minutes. … Having those boundaries on my nap helps me stay in a routine, and my body kind of expects that.

WM: What helps you stick to your sleep routine even when life inevitably gets busy? 

EC: As a professional athlete, you really have to learn to set boundaries and advocate for yourself because it can just snowball. One bad night’s sleep will lead to another bad night’s and another. You really have to prevent that snowball from even happening. 

When I was a younger athlete, like in high school, I would stay up way too late doing homework and watching TV, and I was sick a lot more often. I got hurt more frequently. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve respected that a little bit more. It’s just creating those habits and routines and boundaries, like not making late dinner reservations and saying no to things here and there. 

WM: Aside from sleep, what else helps you with your mental health? 

EC: Getting outside and moving. I’m lucky that when I’m on a run, I’m often with friends—a lot of my training partners are really great friends of mine, so it’s fun to exercise and be social. [For me], going on a run with a buddy outside is always the best therapy anyone can offer. It’s a good time to spill all your feelings, work through all your problems, and get your body moving, and then you feel so much better after that run. 

WM: If you could talk to yourself like a friend right now, what would you say? 

EC: Sometimes we give our friends such good advice, but we can be so hard on ourselves and expect so much more than we would expect from our friends. Right now, things are good, and I’m happy. I would just say enjoy things while they’re good. Things aren’t always great, so enjoy things while they’re good. When things are tough, I try and tell myself that and to just keep working through it. 

Everything is temporary, whether it’s great stuff [or] bad stuff. Just keep working and moving forward, and everything will pass.

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

The post Emma Coburn’s Mental Health Routine Includes Lots of Naps appeared first on Wondermind.

Podcast Link Copied 12.20.22

Ashley Mills on Her Late ADHD Diagnosis

Picture Credit: Alec Kugler

Ashley Mills is the co-founder of obé Fitness, a digital fitness platform that makes fitness fun, accessible and immersive for everyone. In this conversation, she talks about her career switch from Hollywood talent agent to wellness entrepreneur and how she learned to adjust her management style as obé Fitness grew from a 12-person startup to a company that employs 80 people. She also talks about her recent ADHD diagnosis and why she wants her son, who has also been recently diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia, to never lose his confidence.

Daniella Pierson: It’s so nice to have you, Ashley. We just recently met. You were so lovely and so amazing. I actually knew exactly who you were because you are the co-founder and co-CEO of obé Fitness. I would love it if you could give yourself an introduction and really tell our listeners who you are, what you do, what obé Fitness is and anything else that you don’t brag about, I’ll brag about for you. 

Ashley Mills: Absolutely. Well thank you so much for having me. I’m really honored to be here. The work that you guys are doing at Wondermind is so deeply needed. For those folks who are maybe not aware of obé: I am Ashley Mills, I’m a former Hollywood talent agent turned wellness entrepreneur and with my business partner who you mentioned, Mark, we started obé in 2018. So this is pre-COVID, before the growth in the digital fitness category. We were both huge lovers of immersive community-driven fitness experiences in New York and LA, both from small-town USA. We’re sort of frustrated and it was weird for us—we would go home on holidays and see our friends that still lived in the towns that we grew up in and they didn’t have access to these really powerful instructors and these really powerful experiences that really helps you make your way through life and the grind of the everyday. 

And so what we loved about those classes is that we would get that feeling when you’re really in the flow state and you aren’t worried about anything, you aren’t worried about anyone judging you, you can just be very present and you’re doing the thing. We wanted to create a platform that would bring that feeling to a much wider audience. We also wanted to shift the culture around the way that we as a culture view our bodies. There’s diet culture, obsession with fitness, comparison on social…all things that are as relevant now as they always have been and probably actually more so. We wanted to teach people that working out should make you feel whole, it should make you feel strong, it should make you feel connected to yourself. And it’s not about the thinness and the sort of obsession with weight. 

DP: I love all of that and I am such a big fan of obé. Could you walk anybody who hasn’t used the product through what the experience is and what the company does?

AM: We are a digital fitness platform. We have live and on-demand classes that you can do from anywhere. We have 25 different modalities so it’s everything from sculpt, Pilates, meditation, HIIT classes, dance classes. It’s sort of like: you name it, we have it. Our production model is very agile so we’re constantly evolving our content and introducing new class types. In addition to the classes we have progressive programs that you can follow and so if you were looking to get stronger and you have access to a gym, you could do our gym program where you would use the equipment that you would have at a gym. Or “Sculpt Burn Repeat” is a really great program that is focused on sculpt and Pilates and yoga and how you bring all of those things together. Sort of the core principle for us and what has been part of our thesis since day one is that it’s about creating an entertainment experience during a fitness class. We want you to have a really really great time and that’s what’s going to keep you coming back. I have ADHD and I think that’s part of how I’ve learned to create consistency in my life and my workouts. I have to enjoy doing it or I just won’t do it. So we know that so many people struggle in that way, whether you have ADHD or not. That is a very real thing. Our biggest competition we say in our business is inertia. A lot of people know they need to exercise but it’s really hard to do it. We’ve come up with this kind of hide-the-broccoli approach to fitness to give people a killer workout but have hopefully such a great time that you don’t even realize that you’re working out. 

DP: All of that is amazing and anyone who hasn’t tried obé Fitness should absolutely try it out but I want to talk about you, Ashley. You are the co-founder and co-CEO of this incredible business that has grown so much since its debut and really has a cult following. But you are also a mother and you had a previous life before being a founder. Would you mind walking us through what struggles you went through in building the incredible career that you have now? Because I think there are many people listening that want to have your job and I am betting that it was not just an easy rise to the top. 

AM: Yeah. I grew up in small-town USA. I went to college in Texas and then after that I moved to LA because I wanted to work in entertainment. The reason I wanted to work in entertainment is that growing up, my mom was a single mom and we would watch Oprah together every day at three-o’clock. It was kind of like our ritual. At the time, that was the only way that I was getting meaningful news and information about what was going on in the world. So I was very inspired and felt kind of like this altruistic calling to get into media. Obviously media is not all altruism and Oprah. It would be very difficult to sell a show like Oprah’s today. I started as an assistant at CAA. They do it a little differently at CAA where you go to the mail room as part of the trainee program and then I worked my way up. It’s kind of like an apprenticeship model and they make sure that you really understand how the agency functions. So we would be up at 6 a.m. and we’d be at the office until 9 p.m. and we were driving packages around to all of these very famous people. It was a really great experience and I think I’ve always been a very hard worker. Even though I didn’t necessarily know all of these people (I didn’t have this fancy life before I got to LA), I think I had a really standout work ethic that was appreciated and helped me be good at my job. And then from there, I was promoted to an agent and I worked in the TV department. I was working primarily with personalities that we were building lifestyle businesses around. So we would sign someone who had a really interesting point of view and then we would build a lifestyle business around them, figuring out what the media platform was and then from there the book deal, the podcast, all of the license deals that would help to create a holistic brand. I did that for 10 years and it was an awesome 10 years. 

Then there was a certain point where I’d had my first son (I have three kids). My first son was 7 and I was on a plane all the time. It was like: breakfast, lunch, dinner, drinks after…it was that kind of lifestyle job. And I just wasn’t sure how I was going to manage that long-term. With my now business partner (who was like my work husband at CAA, our offices were right next to each other), we started really thinking about what we wanted to do next. As I mentioned, we both have this love of fitness and love of great experiences and we wanted to figure out how to create that on a bigger level for more people. We had represented a bunch of folks in the fitness category so we had working knowledge of it in terms of how to get something done. So we started in our agency off hours thinking about it, planning, making decks. I remember there was one evening when we were actually at Mark’s house having lunch with both of our partners talking about it over many bottles of wine. It was this really great night. We decided we were going to do it and we had our respective partners there who were going to keep us accountable and we were making this decision. We decided to start raising money and made sure that our clients were taken care of so that we could move on and do this. We started a business like everyone starts a business—it’s super scrappy, you don’t have very much money, we did not raise the kind of VC rounds that you read about. We raised enough money to be able to get a studio together and a couple of people on the crew. But it was really us. We were the ones who were putting names on the board for shoutouts for people at home. We were the ones casting the instructors, doing all the training, figuring out who was going to do all the tech. That’s a really big challenge I think for us in our business, the technology piece of it, because neither of us are our technical founders. 

It scaled pretty dramatically during COVID when everyone needed our product so desperately. It was a really exciting time for us, not only because the growth was great but also we felt such a need to be of service. Because we were deemed essential by the New York Governor’s Office, we were able to continue producing in a very very safe way. We started doing kids programming and meditation and seniors just to make sure that our members could provide this kind of content to the people in their lives and really serve them when people needed it the most. That was an incredible time. I will say that when your business scales it’s night and day. The skill set that you need when you’re first starting a business to raising a Series A and that post-Series A, where you’ve scaled your team and you have real operations people and real HR and all of those C-suite roles, the business and your job take on a very different dynamic. And I think that transition was tricky for me and I think this has a lot to do with my ADHD. I am the kind of person that needs to be really hands-on and in the weeds if I’m learning something and I get so engrossed and I’m so focused and so intense about it. I think that was hard for me because when you bring in people to do jobs, you’re expected to trust them and let them do their jobs, whereas I wanted to know everything and ask every question and everyone’s like, “Get away from me. Let me do my job.” 

There was a moment last year actually where the folks around me were like, “You’re driving us crazy.” I talked to my advisors and people in my life who were like, “Get a coach and figure out how to have a company that is this size,” because that is not natural for me and that’s been like a hard adjustment. At the same time I think it’s really important to listen to feedback and to take it in and try and understand it. What feels right for you are the things that you should act on, but there was a lot of feedback that was just a critique of my personality. If you listen to everyone and if you take their feedback as gospel and it is personality traits (it’s okay for people not to like you!) you can’t let that seep in because then you lose your confidence and that’s the most powerful thing that you have as a founder and as an entrepreneur.

DP: Yeah, for sure. It’s very rare that founders take feedback and actually evolve in their working style. It sounded like because you are somebody that does not like to delegate, you were almost hamstringing the company in a way because you were the bottleneck to all of these different functions. That’s something that is very common among founders. 

How many team members does obé Fitness have now? What were the things that you heard that maybe hurt you the most that you decided to act on? What are the things that you didn’t decide to act on because it was your personality and you didn’t want to change?

AM: We were 80 people last year at this time and I think when COVID started we were 12. That is a dramatic difference and obviously the nature of a remote culture. Our production team and our talent team were coming into the office but everyone else was remote. I think that’s been a really big learning around: How do you make relationships with people when you’re not in the same place as them? I think when you’re working in an in-person environment it’s easy to have these connections when you’re walking to the bathroom or you’re getting lunch and you’re able to connect with people on this casual but nice level. One of the things that I really struggled with was that as we got bigger and everything was remote and we were doing everything on video conference, I didn’t have personal relationships with everyone. That’s something that I’ve had to learn: How do you build relationships when your company has scaled, when you don’t necessarily have the time or the ability to have deep relationships with every person? Figuring out how to connect. One of the pieces of feedback that I got was around my intensity. I am an intense person, I am a focused person with things that are novel, things that excite me, new projects. The thing that I learned through that was making sure that in the process I realize that there are humans around me who have feelings. While the work is really exciting and we’re all excited to do the work together, I have to take care of that human piece of it as well. 

I luckily have a co-founder who is very good at the human piece of it and the emotional stuff. We balance each other really nicely. On a personal level, I have to make sure that I go that extra mile and do the thing that isn’t necessarily as natural for me. The other piece of it, which I think the feedback was well warranted, was really around trust. As I mentioned, I was used to doing all of the jobs and then all of a sudden you’re not doing all of the jobs anymore and you have to trust people that they’re going to do the job and also recognize that they’re probably not going to do it the way that you would do it. There were a lot of situations where I was checking in and it was viewed as micromanaging and people were saying, “But do you not trust us or do you not trust me?” I really had to sit back and say, “Do I trust this person?” And those are hard conversations to have because sometimes the answer is no and that means that there is a change that has to come. 

DP: I totally hear that. Everything you’re saying is so relatable. Managing takes on a completely different role. What is the emotional experience for you of letting someone go? Because unfortunately in the startup world you’re supposed to hire slow and fire fast and sometimes you hire fast and fire slow or hire fast and fire fast. It’s unfortunate but especially with a VC-backed company you are accountable to the people who gave you the money to grow this business. It’s so much bigger than just your baby. It’s having to meet goals and thresholds and not always being able to say, “Maybe just give this person a few more months,” because you need this job done. So how do you approach that process?

AM: It’s such a hard thing to have to make those decisions. As a leader, if you are honest with the person about what the goals are, what it is that you need them to do, having regular check-ins and one-on-ones, I think that that’s where the balance is. You want to be encouraging but also making sure that it is understood when KPIs are not being hit, when you’re not sure that the things that need to be happening now to set you up for success later are in process, or if that person knows how to do that thing that you thought that they did when you hired them. The best thing that you can do is just be really honest and transparent but at the same time making sure that people don’t feel cut off at the knees and they can’t do anything. Because when people start to underperform, they become paralyzed and then they really can’t get themselves out of it because they lose their confidence. 

In the same way that confidence is the thing that you need the most as an entrepreneur, I think that the same goes for anyone who is running a team or on a team. It’s a tricky balance. The day of is certainly the worst, when you know that you’re going to have that conversation and you have to communicate that information. I always try to really think of the human element. Being as honest and helpful and clear about why the decision was made is really important. Obviously it sucks. It’s hard always leaving those conversations because you know you just rocked someone’s world. You really changed things up for them, maybe in a way that hopefully they were expecting because you’ve done enough of the early conversations. But even if you’ve had those conversations, sometimes people don’t expect it. 

DP: All the points you made are really helpful for anybody managing anyone or considering starting a business or who has a business—making very clear goals and making sure that people know that they are not hitting them so that it doesn’t come as a surprise. That’s definitely something that a good leader should be doing and it’s hard because as a CEO you have maybe three to seven direct reports. Those direct reports are in charge of giving that feedback to the people who report to them. Sometimes it’s hard because you as a CEO are firing somebody and maybe they are very shocked because they didn’t get that feedback. It’s not your fault but at the end of the day, it is your fault because you’re the captain of the ship.

AM: Right. Everything’s your fault when you’re the CEO.

DP: It truly is. I like to take a lot of responsibility when we do end up parting ways with people. Even if I had nothing to do with hiring them or anything, it always is our company. We failed in some way because it wasn’t the right fit. It’s not just that person.

I’d love to talk about your dynamic with your co-founder. It seems like you guys are very close and almost like brother and sister and you’ve worked together forever. You are co-CEOs, which is not very normal in the startup world. I would love to hear the dynamic and how you both split responsibilities and how you navigate the co-CEO space.

AM: I remember when we decided that we were going to be co-CEOs. Folks, when we were raising money, were like, “What? Why are you doing that?” We had seen a couple of other co-CEOs do it really well so we were not worried about it. Also, we have this long-standing relationship. We had the benefit of working together for four years before we decided to do this and this move was very well-thought and planned for many many months. From the beginning we sort of held hands and were like, “This has to work and we’ve got to figure it out.” I think our skill sets are (and I don’t think that this is the case for probably most co-founders), our skill sets are dynamically opposed. They are so different from one another. It is a yin and yang situation and it works beautifully. I was telling you before that he is the emotional person who can really take care of people and they feel loved and they feel all of that stuff, he is so good at that. That is not a strength of mine. Where I am really good is being in the weeds, super tactical problem solving. How do we deal with this issue that is right in front of us in a way that’s going to set us up to be successful later? Again, our skill sets are just so different. Because we have that benefit of working with each other for four years at CAA and then now at obé for five years, it’s almost like twin speak. We can read each other’s minds and we know who does what. It works and you just have to trust the process of working with us because there is something that’s really special to our dynamic.

DP: I want to talk about your personal life because you told me something that was very beautiful at the party that we met at. It involved you knowing that your son needed help and wanting to go on that journey with him. I would love to hear about that because I think it would inspire so many people, whether they are mothers or fathers or not, just because of the journey that you decided to take and what it unlocked from you that’s something that you could have unlocked in your childhood.

AM: My son Donovan is seven. We knew when he was four or five that he had some learning challenges. We didn’t know the extent of it but we could tell something was up. So we consulted our pediatrician and we went through this whole process. What we were told was that he couldn’t be formally diagnosed until he was seven (because of whatever milestones exist in kids with reading and writing, etc.) to actually go forward and have that diagnosis and have a plan. My husband, I think, saw a lot of himself in our son and we know that ADHD is genetic. We said, “Why don’t we go through this diagnostic ourselves? Let’s see what his genetic makeup may include.” So we went through that process, which was pretty lengthy, and we both were diagnosed with ADHD. What was so wild about that experience was the way that I felt and the way that I internalized that. I did not expect to feel this way. My husband was diagnosed first and so he was talking a lot about it and I was like, “Yeah, cool, whatever.” Then I was diagnosed and it was like at first things clicked and I was like, “Oh, that makes sense and that makes sense. And yeah I have a crappy working memory. And yeah sometimes I’m a little impulsive and I make decisions really quickly.” Then it was like this overwhelming amount of grief. I was so bothered that my life could have been different if this didn’t exist. Like I could have gone to an Ivy League school, I could have done this. I really went down that path and I remember talking to my mom about it and she was like, “When you were five and your brother was eight, the guidance counselor at school said that you both had ADHD and should be put on Ritalin.” This was in the early nineties at a time when you really didn’t medicate your kids. There was so much stigma around it. So my mom’s telling me this and I’m like, “My life could have been different if I had been treated for this problem and so could my brother’s.” I don’t think I shared this with you when we spoke but my life went well and I figured out ways of coping that were productive like thinking about wellness and working out and getting into sports and figuring out a way to make my life work for me. How to fit in as a neurodivergent brain and how to fit in this very neurotypical world—I was able to navigate that. But my brother was not. My brother started drinking and smoking pot at like 11 and the drugs progressively got worse and he ended up at 17 dying in a car accident. He and the driver were both drunk and high, hit a tree, he died on impact. When I think about the fact that (and obviously there is no direct correlation necessarily between ADHD in that accident), but when I think about the fact that he went down this drug path because he needed to cope with these feelings that he didn’t know what to do with—that to me is just so devastating. If the stigma didn’t exist, maybe the treatment would’ve been different and maybe he would’ve gotten the help he needed. 

Throughout this process for my son I’ve thought a lot about that because I see my brother in him, when he smiles at me and the way that his eyes listen and the way that he laughs. But also the irritability and the way he gets so pissed about things. I see a lot of my brother and it’s been such a journey getting here but I need to make sure that he doesn’t lose his confidence because he is not neurotypical and he lives in this neurotypical world. I need to make sure that he has the skill sets and the abilities and the help to learn in the way that his brain is used to learning so that he is a productive member of society and knows that he is a strong capable boy who can problem solve and do all of the things that we have been able to do. Long story short, he’s going to be great, we’re gonna be great. He’s dyslexic as well and he’s a very very smart capable child and it’s just a matter of figuring out the right tools for him so that he can not lose his confidence.

DP: Let me just say, first of all, I’m so sorry for your loss. I can definitely relate to the feelings of being the dumb kid in school. In reality, maybe if I was on Ritalin and Prozac and all of the medicines I’m on now, maybe I would’ve been the smartest kid in school like my identical twin sister was. But you never know. What your son is so lucky to have is parents like you because the reason why we started Wondermind and the reason why we do this podcast is because we want everybody to know that success does not look like the person who went to Harvard, who never had trouble studying, who was great at science and math and everything in between. 

AM: I couldn’t agree more. I remember in fourth grade I moved to Ohio and the school was great and it was far more advanced than the school that I’d come from. I was so so far behind, I remember there were three years where I had to go to a learning center. I remember being pulled out of class, no other kids were pulled out of my class. I was so embarrassed for so long about having to do that and to go there. The shame around that, I held on to for a long time.

DP: It’s really inspiring to have someone like you on The Business of Feelings. I hope everybody who is listening is so inspired by Ashley’s story because it truly is such a testament to: No matter what your background is, no matter what grades you got before high school, no matter what you’ve been diagnosed with, you can do anything. I bet your son looks at you and says, “Cool, my mom has this too and I’m gonna be a huge success just like my mom,” you know?

AM: It feels good now that I know this about my son and my experience and even looking back at my brother’s story. My son is lucky to have a parent who cares in this way and not just cares, because I think every parent cares about their children and they want the best for them, but has the tools and the resources and the ability to get the information they need to make life different. It’s amazing. 

DP: That lesson is extended to people who maybe aren’t even parents, people who have a brother or sister or uncle or parents who are struggling with something. All a lot of people need is just acceptance and validity that they are going through what they’re going through, no matter if it’s ADHD, depression, OCD, etc. If you see anybody in your life that is going through something and is begging for help, sometimes the only thing they need is just somebody to give them a hug and say, “I believe that you have these struggles. I’m not going to call you lazy. I’m going to say I believe that your brain doesn’t work the same way as other people. And that you aren’t broken.” My last question for you is: What is one thing that you do every single day for your mental fitness?

AM: Unsurprisingly, the thing that I do for my mental fitness every day is I move. Obviously this diagnosis for me is relatively new but for my entire life I have figured out how to move and not like in a “I need to do a fitness class” kind of way but my body just like intuitively knows that it needs to get up and run around and do jumping jacks and dance in the kitchen and do something. How my brain wakes up is through movement. That’s what I do every single day without fail. It doesn’t always look the same. Some days it is a real workout and I feel strong and sore and all those things. There are other days where it is dancing in the kitchen with my kids. If it’s dancing in the kitchen with my kids, that’s awesome. If it is a HIIT class, that is awesome. If it is stretching or doing a restorative yoga class (which I’m obsessed with, especially when I’m feeling very anxious), that’s awesome too. There’s a lot of energy in this body and the energy has to move so that I can be productive and I can be useful and I can show up for people in the way that I want.

DP: Well I am very jealous because my movement is literally walking to the door to get the coffee that I ordered from Dunkin’ and going back to my computer. Maybe I need to get some movement in my life. I’m definitely going to re-sign up for obé. I’m so excited to revisit that because literally my doctor told me the other day, “You have to move for at least 30 minutes a day.” 

AM: I have a genetic heart defect. I have heart disease, which is very strange to say as a 38-year-old. But my cardiologist tells me the same thing. I’m like, “What can I do? What medication can I take?” He’s like, “There’s nothing that you can do other than the things that you know, which are you need to eat well, you need to sleep, you need to move, you need to not drink too much and you need to take care of your kids.”

DP: Those are just honestly the rules of life, just do all of that and you’ll be good no matter what you have. I love that. Well thank you so much, Ashley. I really appreciate your vulnerability. Where can our listeners find you and obé?

AM: I am @ashleydmills on Instagram. I would love to offer one month free for your listeners: I created a code for you guys, it’s Wondermind. It’s one month free and you can sign up at obéfitness.com. 

DP: Awesome. Cool. Well everybody should definitely use that code and move. I know I’m going to be moving. Thank you again so much Ashley for this conversation.

AM: Thank you so much for having me Daniella.

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